Safe Spaces: How Black Women Navigate Work, Love, and Self-Worth

What does it truly mean to be a woman navigating the complexities of motherhood, career, and personal identity? In this heartfelt Women's History Month celebration, host Mr. Zachary welcomes Trevita Harris and Dr. Carolyn for a raw, unfiltered conversation that peels back the layers of female experience with humor, wisdom, and profound vulnerability.

The dialogue opens with both women reflecting on the bittersweet journey of raising children into adulthood. "As they grow, they're never going to be that small again. So each moment is precious," Trevita shares, capturing the essence of maternal love while acknowledging the necessary evolution of the parent-child relationship. Both women candidly discuss the delicate balance between protection and allowing natural consequences, revealing how motherhood itself becomes a catalyst for personal growth as children mature.

The conversation takes a powerful turn when addressing generational trauma and forgiveness. Trevita's moving account of reconciling with her mother's substance abuse struggles offers listeners a masterclass in empathy: "Our parents were once children too, and we have to forgive them for the life they had before they had us." This sentiment resonates throughout as both women advocate for seeing parents as complex human beings rather than one-dimensional figures, challenging listeners to initiate healing conversations with their own family members.

Perhaps most compelling is their examination of the "tap dance" many women perform—constantly proving themselves in professional settings, relationships, and even among other women. "We're always somewhere trying to prove something," Dr. Carolyn observes, "and we never really come to a place of rest and peace." Their prescription? Creating authentic safe spaces where women can admit vulnerability without judgment and practice emotional intelligence over reactivity.

The discussion culminates in a redefinition of what it means to "have it all," with both women sharing how their priorities shifted from material acquisition and non-stop hustle to more sustainable forms of fulfillment. Their parting wisdom about standing in one's truth while navigating life's challenges offers a roadmap for listeners seeking both professional success and personal peace.

Want to hear more authentic conversations about life's most meaningful topics? Subscribe to our podcast and join the community of listeners finding wisdom in these honest exchanges.

Chapters

• 0:00 Women's History Month Celebration
• 8:21 The Challenge of Raising Adult Children
• 22:45 Forgiveness and Understanding Parents
• 35:49 Creating Safe Spaces for Vulnerability
• 48:58 Women's Expectations and Having It All
• 1:01:35 Standing Up for Yourself as a Woman
• 1:28:30 Legacy and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Hey, you guys, it's your boy, mrs Zachary, on his once and two. And we are here, just the two of us. Broadcast man. Listen, it has been a long time. Y'all heard from me, but we are back here once again to celebrate Women's History Month and y'all, like I told y'all, I wouldn't be here without the females. I wouldn't be here without the females, I wouldn't be here, and I want to give this tribute in this moment, to have a conversation with these two lovely females, empowerful, intelligent and passionate females. First up, we have Vida. How are you doing, vida? I'm doing good. How about yourself? I am doing fine. Thank you for coming on. I just want to just take the time out, just to take the time out and just want to thank you.

Speaker 2: 0:53

Well, I thank you for having me Can you let the audience know?

Speaker 1: 0:55

Can you let the audience know who you're all about?

Speaker 2: 0:59

Oh Lord, okay, Well, listen, I am a mother of three adult children, I have two grandkids, I am a stroke survivor, I am a key RMA information warrior, I am an author, I am a speaker, I am a podcast host and I am a mentor. So I'm only four or eight, but you would never know that because I am big in spirit. So you know, that's basically me in a nutshell okay, our next person.

Speaker 1: 1:28

We have dr caroline. Dr caroline, on here, she looking wonderful. If you see what I see, this is a gorgeous lady in front of me. How are you doing today? I'm absolutely wonderful and I'm so super excited about just being here with you. Zachary, thank you so much for honoring us and for acknowledging us and giving us an opportunity to speak our piece so we can be at peace. So, thank you, at peace. So thank you. Like I said at the beginning, I wouldn't be here without y'all, without the movement, the rights to vote, just us. Being a man, we won't become a man without the right to vote.

Speaker 2: 2:13

I agree with y'all.

Speaker 1: 2:15

Can you tell me a little bit about yourself, Dr Curl Sure? I am originally from Brooklyn, New York. Shout out to all that will be watching this broadcast If you're from the BK, how you doing so. I currently reside in Atlanta, Georgia, and I've been here for about 30 years. So I think, Zachary, that officially makes me a peach now, but I'm an apple at heart. I serve here in Atlanta as a clinical mental health therapist. I am also the CEO of the BAC Media Network Group, which is a television on demand platform. I am a publishing consultant, a mental health coach, a family support specialist, a mental health coach, a family support specialist, and I wear several other hats.

Speaker 1: 3:08

But, much like Trevita, my greatest accomplishment is that of being a mother of three, and I noticed she did the same thing and we do that on purpose. We might be able to talk about that in the show Three adult children. So you notice that we didn't say children, we said three adult children, because them adults, I said them, them adults are in their own category. That's the reason why we specified that when we introduced the fact that we have adult children. So well, speaking of that, since we are hitting children so as women, you know you raise these kids to be adults. You know sometimes kids often can fall off the wagon sometimes you know it's your responsibility as females to put us back on track, so to see your kids as children and growing up as adults. But how does it make you feel, as you know, womanhood, as motherhood, I'll answer first.

Speaker 2: 4:16

I'll try to answer first. As a mom, you know you go through that journey of watching them grow, but what you realize is that as they grow they're never going to be that small again. So each moment is precious. So you have to take that and enjoy the memories, enjoy the moments, and never get so stuck on the mistakes that they make, because they're going to make mistakes and they have their own individual experiences that they have to go through Now, me being the mom that I am.

Speaker 2: 4:51

I always want to try to shelter my kids from bad experiences as much as I can. However, as I've gotten older, I've understood that what I may have wanted for my children may not have been the plan that God had for them. And some of those experiences I've had to step to the background and say, god, this was your child before it became mine. So let me step to the side and let you do what you need to do to work on them, but I'll continue to keep them uplifted in prayer. So that part for me has been tough, because I'm more of a hands-on mom and if I can keep you from making a mistake like I did, I'm going to try my best to keep you from getting hurt Like I see you're about to run into this brick wall. I'm going to try to cushion you and redirect your path, but if you're determined to keep going forward, then I have no other choice but to let you hit it and to experience that pain, and that's tough as a mom.

Speaker 1: 5:51

Okay, okay. What about you, ms Doctor? I concur, it is our innate nature to be nurturers, to be protectors, especially of our children. However, when our children transitioned into adulthood, what I found, what it did for me, is that it caused me to grow. It caused me to grow because I realized that my parenting style had to change. Now, if I was to use an African-American vernacular, zachary, I would say you know, when they get to a certain point, you can't whip them no more. See that, yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:42

Yeah, that becomes a whole other transition right there.

Speaker 1: 6:47

You see, that's the part, because when they little, you can whip them up, but when they become adults you don't longer have that, so you have to pair. Zachary, I'm an extremely transparent person. That's how you have me back on your platform. But so you, you go through a frustration because you realize that you can't discipline the same way, especially see them getting in trouble.

Speaker 1: 7:27

Yeah, so you yourself have to grow, you have to grow as a parent and you have to grow as a person along with your children and you have to embrace the fact that they are adults. Like Trevita said, they're going to make mistakes and sometimes they're not mistakes. Sometimes they're going to make mistakes, sometimes they're not mistakes. Sometimes they're going to do some things on purpose.

Speaker 2: 7:48

And they test that boundary.

Speaker 1: 7:51

Yeah, just because I'm a true believer of testing boundaries Because they know you can't whip them no more For me, I think for my mom, my mom is more as a tough like she tough love right Getting the whoopings I would say I'm very, I wasn't, I wasn't spoiled. I think I was blessed. I'm the baby, I'm the baby, Okay. So, that is, it tells a lot.

Speaker 2: 8:20

We understand what that baby relationship is like.

Speaker 1: 8:24

For me. I used to test the waters. A lot like talk back and she's like like I'm old my mom was old school she would pick up an object and don't miss, but it taught me as like growing up, it taught me how to navigate through our life.

Speaker 1: 8:40

It taught me how to make right or wrong choice in life. Yeah, we, as me being my 20s, we always gonna make mistakes, but it's it's it's about how you can get back up and what you can learn from me. Right, like my mom will be. My mom will be looking at me now like be giving that, look like why, why? Yeah, but I tell her, like you know, you raised me as you should raise me, but as me being an adult, me being as a young adult and trying to be a man, I have to like figure that out, like I was just telling you.

Speaker 1: 9:19

Via like you know, me and my father like have issues and my mom had to raise me up up and just not having that father figure, and you know your mother trying to it's hard for women to teach men how to be men, and that was one thing that I talked to my boys about as they were growing up.

Speaker 2: 9:39

I said, listen, I can't teach you about manhood. That is one thing that I cannot do. But what I can do is raise you to be adult males who respect other people and have respect about yourself. But for the things that men are going to go through, boys are going to go through, oh, you're going to have to talk to your uncle and your granddaddy and cousins about that kind of stuff, Because, that's a limit and I can't I.

Speaker 2: 10:06

that's a road I can't even get on because that's not my street, you know, and that that was my thing, and so my boys understood. Now I did grow up with five boys. I was the only girl for the most part. So my boys were like, ma, you real tough and I'm yeah, but I had to, because growing up with boys they gonna fight you. Like they just don't do that because they feel like you wanted it.

Speaker 2: 10:29

So it was one of those things where I did the football, the baseball, the cutting flips and doing all that stuff with them and they're like, okay, well, most girls don't do that. And then I had my daughter and I'm like God, what am I supposed to do with her? Cause? I mean, I was with boys all the time. So I had my daughter first and I'm like God I think you pranking me on this right here because I'm not supposed to have a girl, I'm supposed to have a boy first, cause I know what to do with them.

Speaker 2: 10:58

Like she came along and she loves to shop, she loves to get the nails done and do all. I'm not that woman, I'm not that woman, I'm still not that woman. And it's just like now we can get in the kitchen and cook together. We can do that, but anything, yeah, that's not my thing. So you know, it's one of those things that I do understand that having that male figure is very important and vital with young boys growing up and understanding that when they do start to act out because my oldest son did, and it was one of those things where keeping him in sports and keeping him active and doing those things that had males around kept him in a space to where it was things he couldn't talk to me about. Now I'm an open book. My kids can talk to me about anything.

Speaker 1: 11:47

however, it's some things, as your mama, I don't want to hear I love the fact that, uh, vita mentioned that, you know, because nowadays there are a lot of women who will not say there are things that as a woman, as a mother, I can't teach my son, because now women will say I'm the mama and the daddy, no, you're not. No, you're not. It's a different kind of energy.

Speaker 2: 12:22

You got masculine energy.

Speaker 1: 12:24

You got feminine energy.

Speaker 2: 12:25

Right.

Speaker 1: 12:26

And so no, there are things that we cannot teach a male. I have one son and I have two girls. We do the best that we can. We try to solicit support from outside men, uncles, mentors and that kind of thing. It is rather unfortunate that Black men are pretty scarce and unavailable in terms of finding that kind of support and I wish more would come along, because the job of the single mom gets to be very hard. My son was intentional about going to the military. Of course I didn't want him to go.

Speaker 1: 13:08

I didn't want him to go, but you know there were things about the military that I am glad that David went because he got a chance to get the mentorship that he needed. But I did the best I could. I tried to show him how to play baseball. He was looking crazy but I did what I could and my son and I have a absolute. There's something about a mother's son that's a whole different kind of relationship.

Speaker 1: 13:37

My son and I have a really, really special relationship. And then I have a special relationship with my daughters. But I have to tell you that daughters can be a bit more difficult, a bit more challenging to raise because we've got that same personality going and unfortunately, I will say this to be honest for any daughters that might be watching.

Speaker 1: 14:00

sometimes, when you're raising daughters, sometimes when you're raising daughters you might be parenting them out of a lot of fear. So if a daughter says, oh wow, you know, you're just so hard on me. You're harder than me than you was was my brother, it may look that way only because we have so many apprehensions, because we understand what it's like to be a woman you understand.

Speaker 1: 14:22

So sometimes we are parenting out of fear, which is why I mentioned earlier that in raising grown children, I had to evolve myself. I had to learn how to adjust to this culture. I'm still old school, but there were things that I had to learn about this culture and the mindset that millennials have.

Speaker 2: 14:46

It's a whole different. It is a whole different.

Speaker 1: 14:54

So one of the things that I do is every year at the holiday I have a talk with all three of my children and I say to them the rules are. It's no judgment zone. You talk to me about what you want to talk about. If I have questions, I will not judge. So that's the thing.

Speaker 1: 15:17

And there are some things that they have told me that I was on the inside, like oh, I want to judge right now, but I promised them I wouldn't, but I do it every year so that I could understand where they are in their culture and in their mind.

Speaker 1: 15:32

They feel differently about sex, they feel differently about marriage, they feel differently about a lot of things, and we do have to learn what their ideologies are, where their mindsets are. Even if you've been raised in that way, what is it that they're listening to and hearing every day amongst their peers? And so that was a part of my growth that I had to learn how to be more open, learn how to be more open. I had to learn how to be a little bit more flexible in my thinking, because these are individuals that I'm sending out into the world, and you know, I just wanted to be able to sow good seeds enough that when they got older, they would draw upon those seeds that I sowed into them, and so that's kind of the way that I see about. But dealing with adult children is something serious.

Speaker 2: 16:28

Yeah, it's a whole different ballgame.

Speaker 1: 16:32

It's a whole different ballgame, I think, just for you. I wish we had more of that today and I think parents understand their children more as adults if they just just listen. Don't judge, Just just listen. And if you have questions or concern, ask.

Speaker 2: 16:49

but just don't be rude yeah, that's one thing that I can say that I I tried to establish with my kids as when they were younger because the household that I grew up in was the adults were always right and you didn't have an opinion, and and if you had an opinion or a thought, you were being disrespectful and it's like no, we're having a conversation.

Speaker 2: 17:09

What you said hurt my feelings and so I feel as if I'm able to tell you.

Speaker 2: 17:14

What you said or what you did hurt me and it was always feel.

Speaker 2: 17:19

It was always disrespect on the older adults part and I'm like, yeah, I don't want my kids to ever feel as if they don't have a say so in our relationship, because I used to tell my kids this all the time and that was love had nothing to do with our relationship.

Speaker 2: 17:37

And people used to get upset with me when I would say that and I was like I need you to understand why I say that my mother gave birth to me, but my mother didn't raise me and my mother, consistently, was not always the nicest, but she was dealing with drugs and alcohol. So my mother was a young teenager and so as I got older, I had to understand the life that she lived before she had me was a life of her own, I say, and so, with me coming up and her telling me that she wished that I was dead and things of that nature, so our relationship was strained. So I would tell my kids that love has nothing to do with this relationship. God granted me the ability to be your mother, but love has nothing to do with what I do for you, and so as you grow and I grow, we learn to love each other, and I choose to love you every single day.

Speaker 2: 18:33

My obligation right now is to take care of you, to make sure that you're safe, that you're well fed, that you're clothed, that all of your needs are taken care of daily, but love has nothing to do with the relationship ultimately. So, as we grow and learn each other, I choose to love you every single day, and my love manifests through everything that we go through together. And so people was like well, that just doesn't make sense. I would never tell my children that I said, I've never said that I didn't love my children. Love has nothing to do with the relationship, you know. And so now, when I tell people that and I explain the basis and the background as to why because my mother gave birth to me doesn't mean that she didn't love me, and it doesn't mean that she did love me. But what I saw was that she didn't sacrifice for me me but what I saw was that she didn't sacrifice for me. So there was no love there for me to base it on whether or not she did. Until she got older and started to go through her transition of, you know, the final stages of life is where we became to have this sense of okay. She never got to experience love that wasn't conditional, so my mother never knew what love felt like without pain, until she experienced her last six months of me coming to see her being consistent.

Speaker 2: 19:56

Anytime my mother needed a place to stay, no matter how bad our relationship was to other people, I was always there. My mom called. Anybody called say that my mom needed something. I was always there. I made myself available, but it wasn't because I was seeking for her to love me, it was just. This is my mother. I'm going to make sure that she's straight, regardless of her not doing that for me. And so, when we got to those final stages, it was something that my mother said while they were changing her bandages, and that it sticks with me now because it makes more sense. And that was they were changing her bandages and I'm like my, if you need to yell, scream, cry, whatever, because, however, you need to get this emotion out, because I know it hurts my mother said that she didn't know how to release the pain that she was feeling, and so it was like okay, she's always been told that she had to stay silent, regardless of how bad she was being treated.

Speaker 2: 20:57

So, she could not release, no matter how bad. So she's cried in silence most of her life and she was consistently being told she wasn't good enough, that she was, you know, never going to be anything or anybody, and so that was the same things that she tried to do to me and also the family members who raised me. Those were the same things that they told me over time, and so I've had to slowly learn that I'm nothing like they wanted me to be, you know, and I'm nothing of what they called me, and so it's like and I used to be embarrassed by what my mom went through and stuff like that but once I realized that my mom had a life out before me and it's like, okay, I understand now. It wasn't what you did. You thought you were doing what was best for me by staying away because you didn't think that you were good enough to be my mom. But my mom was the mother that I needed, so that I became the mother that I wanted to my children.

Speaker 2: 21:59

So it's one of those things that I don't think most of us think about as we get older is that our parents were once children too and we have to forgive them for the life that they had before they had us. And I think, once we are able to understand that, that we can grow beyond that and the relationships get better. But we have to first acknowledge that our parents were children too and they need to have forgiveness based upon what they went through. And having those conversations of being open and honest it gets us a lot further than just saying, oh well, this is just how, I am, okay, but can you change? Because you can build a better relationship if you are willing to have the conversations and acknowledge and accept the accountability of your absence, of the role that you play in everything, because accountability goes a long way does, it does go.

Speaker 1: 22:58

That's fair.

Speaker 1: 22:59

That's fair and exactly. Let me say this to end this part on the parent part, and I want to say this to young people such as yourself I would like to challenge the younger generation that they would look at their mothers and have that conversation with their mothers about them as a person, not as a mother, but as a person. And sometimes mothers, you know, out of pride, we don't share who we are and what we were as people, and I'm talking to moms. I think that's important because we call ourselves trying to shield our children, but we need for, we need for you, like you're a young man, zachary, you're at the age of understanding, and it's important that you, that you understand that your mother she was.

Speaker 1: 24:07

She's not only a mother, but she's a human being and a person who has made a lot of mistakes, who has had wants and desires and, just like you you know, has been confused, has not been mentally well at times, whatever that may look like. And I think that if we begin to look at each other as human beings, then children could say you know what? That's my mom, but she's also a person. She's also a human being. Like right now I'm getting older Now. I ain't no senior citizen now, but I mean I'm getting older, so I'm still fly.

Speaker 1: 24:56

But what I'm saying is one of the things that I noticed with my kids is they're having a difficult time seeing that I'm getting older and so I may not be able to roll the way I used to, and so that's because I'm to them, I'm still mom, the super mom, and so I am now trying to explain to them I'm I'm mom, the person. I'm mom, the human being. It's OK, mom, to let your kids know, listen, I want to date. I'm mom, the person. I'm mom, the human being. It's okay, mom, to let your kids know, listen, I want to date too. I just couldn't date because I had you. Okay, but I would like to get my swerve on sometime, but I couldn't because I had you.

Speaker 1: 25:40

And so I think that's important for kids to understand that mom is a person, she's a person. She's a person too. And sometimes, when you saw her in action, she was the lady who didn't know how she was going to pay the bills, who didn't know how she was going to feed all of you, who was having problems on her job, who really wanted to have a man but couldn't because her kids were her responsibility. And I think that if, generationally, if we begin to understand each other as people first, then we could have a deeper appreciation for each other and we could have a little bit more empathy for each other.

Speaker 1: 26:26

So I agree with Trevita on the communication piece and communicating openly and authentically, because when I listen to Trevita talks and you know I may say this with my therapist hat on, but I also say this as a person I knew that her mom was ill. When you're a substance abuse user or what have you, you're really an ill person. So there were lots of behaviors that she saw coming from her mom that it wasn't like her mom sat down one day and said, hey, I'm just going to be this person. No, she was not a well person and when you're not well, you do things. Hurt people, hurt people.

Speaker 1: 27:08

So the forgiveness piece has to go on, and I'm saying that to young people that's watching, because some of y'all out there still walking around mad at your mama for what she did. Forgive that lady and understand her as a person and forgive her and not walk around with that burden. No, she was a lady that did the best that she could with what she was working with whatever that was she was working with and just thank God she didn't put you on the doorstep somewhere and try to understand her as a person and then forgive her. So that's what I like, because sometimes kids walking around angry with you for 15, 20 years.

Speaker 2: 27:50

Exactly.

Speaker 1: 27:53

Maybe you are guilty. You know what I'm saying, but I used to tell my kids now, if I look on TV and I see you on Maury Publish or one of these other shows talking about something you experienced with your mom, I'm going to come up on that show and show out.

Speaker 1: 28:08

And the reason why I'm going to show out is because I'm giving you an opportunity to talk to me right now and tell me what did I do, what you didn't like, and let's try to see. Can we straighten it out. I can apologize. Don't get up on no talk. Show talking about me.

Speaker 2: 28:24

I could apologize. Don't get up on the talk show talking about me. I'm giving you an opportunity to tell me, because that was what I was saying.

Speaker 1: 28:29

Speak what was on your mind. Just to add it on to that. I think for Mike, even when people hold on to grudge man, you have to forgive the next person so you can heal internally. If you don't heal internally, you will be stuck in that same cycle and that cycle is going to continue to go off on the next kids. You have your next kids. Any person who come right after you that you are taking care of is going to rub on them.

Speaker 2: 28:57

Trauma is generational sometimes and we don't want to talk about that. That's a deep conversation you know, trauma is generational and some people want to carry that and carry that. About that, that's a deep conversation. You know, trauma is generational and some people want to carry that and carry that and that that's what that comes in. Well, this is just how I was raised. Well, baby, we gonna stop that, okay, because?

Speaker 1: 29:15

anything is how you took my trauma like exactly I like to tell, I like to tell my friends this you gotta get over it like it's like like no recipes don't need to be shared.

Speaker 2: 29:24

okay, yeah, like.

Speaker 1: 29:27

It don't happen, Like yo, you have the power to change it.

Speaker 2: 29:30

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 29:31

Like a recipe can come along and it's like, okay, you can perfect this recipe, but if you want to keep it the same and you wonder why it doesn't get any better or whatever, it's because you're not willing to change it, you're not willing to break it, not willing to do something new. But this is the thing that I think people don't seem to understand is that if you can learn a new skill to obtain a job, to start a business, to do whatever is necessary, you can do that for a healthy relationship and a healthy mental status.

Speaker 2: 30:02

As well, so there is absolutely no reason for them to say I can't do this, this is just how I am. No baby, if you can learn a new skill to obtain, get, run a business and all of that, then you can do that for your mental health, for yourself, for all relationships that you have have, instead of just being stuck and saying, well, this is just how I am. I didn't grow up in a household where affection was talked about, where my feelings were talked about. Okay, well, start today with making that change, because it starts with self first and then it trickles down to somebody else, like a cup won't get filled until the faucet's turned on and the cup is put underneath.

Speaker 2: 30:46

So if you want something different, you got to do something to get it to where it changes. But if you're not willing to do none of that, then you just pointless. It's just pointless to even say anything. I want more, I want better, but you're not willing to sacrifice and say, ok, well, let me work with me first, let me start changing and acknowledging the things that I have. You got to do that first. You know I don't know.

Speaker 1: 31:12

You know, and to say, to say this is how I am. So there are two things about that kind of a statement. One is to say this is how I am is a complacent statement and it means that you have given up on evolving as a human being and you're subconsciously saying this is how I am and all the rest of y'all better handle it and deal with it, because this is how I am and all the rest of y'all better handle it and deal with it because this is how I am. And to that we say no, that's a no. The other part of that is to say this is how I am, but it's not who I'm going to be.

Speaker 2: 32:00

Exactly.

Speaker 1: 32:01

That's a difference. It's okay to not be okay. It's just okay to not be okay and we have to get comfortable. Which is my reasoning for doing some of the platforms, some of the books that I do and other things is to take the stigma out of mental health and talking about it. If you're not okay, just tell somebody Say that I'm not okay.

Speaker 1: 32:31

You may not know what to call it, you may not know how to give it a diagnosis, but you certainly know when your life has a certain amount of abnormalities to it. And so most of the people that come and sit on my couch, they don't know exactly what's wrong, they just know something is wrong. And so if you just start right there and say you know what, Something's not right, Something's not right, and then the people around you that you love, those are the people that get affected by what you have going on, At least love them enough to say y'all, I'm not okay and I don't know what to do with it. I don't know what the next step is, but I want to be honest enough to tell y'all, all these years, all the behaviors that y'all have seen, I apologize, first and foremost, but I'm not okay. If we could just all learn to say that. But we have to be able to create safe spaces for each other where we could say I could come to my sister, Vida, and say, Vida, girl, I'm not okay, and then she would create a safe enough environment to say, Dr Carolyn, it's okay, I'm glad that you came to me and, whatever it is. We're going to walk it out together and if we start with simple things like that, at least we could start the healing journey.

Speaker 1: 34:10

But we need to start with. I'm not okay Because you know what Folks walking around here like they okay and they on top of the world, and they got. I have to say, Bita, that is one of the things that I absolutely love about you, girl. You will get on Facebook and tell people look y'all, girl. You will get on Facebook and tell people look y'all. I am feeling like I'm about to break down. I always say when I see I say you go, queen, Because you know what.

Speaker 1: 34:46

That's the little transparency that I have I love that, because one of the things that you're not walking around all filled up with toxicity because you're releasing it.

Speaker 1: 34:59

Okay, you're releasing it, and it's okay to tell the 500 people y'all, I'm not okay, because guess what 499 of them are not okay either? What 499 of them are not okay either? And everybody's just around here putting on a big front they okay, they bossed up whatever term that we got going on, and the truth of the matter is you can still be gifted. You could be wonderful. You could be articulate, special, bright, all of the above. I have clients who are 7K figure earners. They're not hurting for a dime, but let me tell you, but they are hurting though. So it doesn't matter how great and wonderful, we need to have friends that don't care about what we produce. They care about. I just care about you waking up every morning. I just care about you being here.

Speaker 2: 35:52

I just care about you waking up every morning.

Speaker 1: 35:53

I just care about you being here. I just care about you. We need to have people in our lives who authentically just love the fact that I am you. That's all they care about, and if I got some money, then you just get the benefit from it.

Speaker 2: 36:15

I mean, that's the only thing Right.

Speaker 1: 36:17

You want to have people that genuinely just love you for you, and that way, if you're not okay, if you're going through a traumatizing experience, these are the people that you can heal in. See, we need our tribe, because our tribe are the people that help us heal.

Speaker 1: 36:39

And these are the people that we can say, hey, I'm not okay, and we're doing this particular platform and thank you again, Zachary. We're talking about women. I really want to say that to women. We need to create tribes where we as women can come together and be able to say girl, you're safe here, you don't have to put on the corporate dance for me, because that's what a lot of us are doing. We're putting on the red bottoms and we're putting on the corporate dance.

Speaker 1: 37:17

I have told many of women listen, when you come to me with your resume and your speech and your bio and all of that, and I'm so proud of you, let me clap my hands for you. But listen, I'm a real sister. I'm a professional degreed sister, but I'm a real sister At the end of the degreed sister, but I'm a real sister At the end of the night, when you sit on the edge of that bed and excuse me, Zachary, because I'm letting you in on all those secrets here for a moment but when we, at the end of the night, sit on the edge of that bed and take off this hair and them lashes and them eyeballs and the breast and every other piece that we can buy and put on, Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 37:56

You know, all this stuff we got ain't real now.

Speaker 2: 37:58

Listen, I mean, he already know.

Speaker 1: 38:00

I'm telling you now, all of it ain't real. It look good but it's all not real. But when you get finished taking all that stuff off, at the end of the day you a real woman with real problems and you don't always have to tap and I tell women you a real woman with real problems and you don't always have to tap, and I tell women you don't have to tap, dance in front of me. I get it, Okay, I get it when I work on being a safe space. This is a space.

Speaker 1: 38:24

Dr Carolyn is a space, not just because I'm a therapist, it's because I'm a woman and secondly, because I'm a black woman and I say that very unapologetically okay, because I'm a Black woman, I understand our trauma, I understand our disparities and that's why I'm a safe space where you can come and keep it real right here, and it's not going to go nowhere. I'm not going to judge, because I've probably been there, done that and got 15 T-shirts for it. So I really want and I champion for women creating more of those kinds of spaces and making sure that we keep each other accountable OK, that's important. Accountable Because, sister, now let me tell you, I'm your safe space space, but I'm going to need you to act right. Sometimes we don't act right, so I'm going to need you to act right, but just know, when you don't act right, I'm still going to love you and.

Speaker 2: 39:25

I will check you if you don't act right and that is you know, and that is a good friend.

Speaker 1: 39:34

Because, as women though, you didn't ask this question exactly, but I will go ahead. Keep going.

Speaker 2: 39:41

I'm loving it.

Speaker 1: 39:42

There are lots of spaces where we're not safe. There are lots of spaces where we are just flat out not safe. We are not safe emotionally, we're not safe physically, we're not safe financially. You know, out in the business world, there's still no equity, okay, even in 2025, we're getting paid a dime shorter and a dollar shorter than the average man, okay, and then, on top of that, we're going to get a dime shorter and a dollar shorter because we're we're black women, you know. And so I get it that we oftentimes feel that we have a lot to prove, cause I know that was one of the questions that you posed to us.

Speaker 1: 40:28

So sometimes we're always on stage is what I'm saying. We're always somewhere on stage doing the tap dance, because we feel like I got to prove something to her and I got to prove something to her, and then when I get on my job, I got to prove something to them, and then I might be the only one in my family that went to school and we got, and all day long, all day long, we just somewhere trying to prove something, trying to prove something, trying to prove something, and we never really come to a place of rest and peace, because we're always somewhere doing the tap dance and I really want to see women just, sister, get somewhere and sit down. Okay, get somewhere. Get somewhere and sat down. Okay, get somewhere.

Speaker 1: 41:14

Because let me tell you something, because other people can see you doing the dance, they really can, and in their mind they're not saying it, but in their mind they're saying at what point is she gonna just get real? You know, because you do it so much, till we don't get to see the real you, the authentic you and who you are, and that's till we don't get to see the real you, the authentic you and who you are, and that's because we don't feel safe being authentic, and that's really sad. We don't feel safe being authentic because the subconscious thought is if I really was to be myself, will people accept me and will people love me? Will people accept me and will people love me? And that is an internal fight that women deal with every day. Is that that fight of? Am I really going to be accepted being who I am? Amen. And that leads into the next question right, women often suspect to know everything, have everything together. You know career, family, social life, self-care, womanhood, motherhood. Do you think the expectation is real or is set up for?

Speaker 2: 42:28

failure. I feel like you know. In some ways it is setting us up for failure, but it's also a personal responsibility of knowing what you're capable of and what you're not.

Speaker 2: 42:40

And in certain spaces it's all up to.

Speaker 2: 42:44

If you know what you want to do in this life, you can have a career, you can have the family, you can have all of those things if that is your desire to do so.

Speaker 2: 42:54

But you should never let anyone else put an expectation on you, because if that's not an expectation that you have for yourself, then you're never going to be able to meet someone else's expectation, because it's going to forever change. So if you don't put a standard on what you want and what you see for yourself, trying to live up to somebody else's expectation, baby, you ain't going to reach that because they're going to keep moving that goalpost, which is what happens most of the time with us Black women anyway. Because when we meet the standard that they have set right here and it's like, okay, well, I met that, and they're like, oh well, no, I need you to do X, y and Z, and then you do X, y and Z, and then they don't invent it, some other letters and numbers and all of that, and then you still ride into the occasion. So you're never going to meet somebody else's expectation.

Speaker 1: 43:49

But whatever you have for yourself, as long as you're meeting, that it don't matter what nobody else has for you. I agree with my sister. In therapy we use something called Maslow's hierarchy of needs, which is usually represented by a triangle, and so each part of the triangle there are different kinds of needs that all human beings need. At the top of the triangle is something called self-actualization. It's when you get to the place in your life where you accept you and all of you and I. Like a song that Erykah Badu sings and there's a line in there that she says I'm all right with me.

Speaker 1: 44:40

And self-actualization looks like that when you get to the point in your life where you say I'm all right with me and it is not based on what you've attained or what you've achieved, I'm just all right with me and the human being that I have become. That's what. I'm all right, I'm all right with that. And so, to use the term to have it all that means different things to different people. It's nothing wrong with wanting things. There's nothing wrong with that. I am right now. I'll give you all a sneak peek. I'm getting ready to do a book on the hustle culture.

Speaker 2: 45:21

Ooh, okay.

Speaker 1: 45:24

And we live in a hustle culture. Yes, we do, we sure do yes we do, we sure do.

Speaker 1: 45:30

I have to admit that I was a prime candidate at one point in my life. I used to praise myself on my grind. People would tell me Dr Carolyn, your grind is impeccable, you grind like no other woman. You know, and unfortunately I based myself on the level of my grind. But what I found out? That I was always tired, never able to do family stuff and all kinds of other important things because I was on my grind. Because that's what we're taught. We're taught that you always got to be on your grind Because we're trying to attain stuff. Even if you work and work and work and you make lots and lots of money, you're going to be too tired to enjoy the stuff you're doing Zachary.

Speaker 1: 46:30

There was a couch I wanted. It was a real bad couch. I had worked and I said I'm going to get that couch, I don't care if it costs thousands of dollars. I was too tired to sit down on the doggone couch when I got it. Do that make any sense to y'all?

Speaker 2: 46:45

Not at all. It don't make any sense.

Speaker 1: 46:50

I said I want this living room set. I was too tired to even sit on the living room set. I mean, that's just how that looks. So when we talk about I mean I have worked and gone on nice vacations and got to the hotel and slept in the hotel for days and days and days, missed the whole vacation, I missed the whole vacation. I missed the whole point, so we got to be careful when we talk about having it all. And so for me, where I am now, is I want everything God wants for me. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 47:28

That's what I want.

Speaker 1: 47:29

Everything that God wants for me.

Speaker 2: 47:32

Whatever is on that assignment sheet that he got for me, I'm going to check it out. That's what I want, everything that God wants for me. Whatever is on that assignment sheet that he got for me, I'm going to check it out, that's what I want.

Speaker 1: 47:38

So if that's what he wants, then I know that's not going to come with certain things, see, because the blessings of the Lord, they don't add no sorrow. So I want things, but I don't want the sorrow that goes along with it. Okay, so we have to be intentional about what do we mean when we say I want it all. I want what glorifies God, I want what makes me happy, and sometimes, you know, I used to be a clothes and a shoes person. I'm not going to lie. There's a time that I had a thousand pair of shoes in my closet.

Speaker 2: 48:15

And when.

Speaker 1: 48:15

I think about and that's insane, it's just insane. No, it's not, I'm telling you?

Speaker 2: 48:20

No, it's not Exactly.

Speaker 1: 48:25

That's a little. Let me tell you why I call it insane Because I'm doing better now, because I have too many, right, but the thing about it is, every day now I wear either one or three pairs of them shoes and one of them is a pair of Nike sneakers. I don't even wear the shoes, they're just in boxes and it's just in boxes, alright, so I'm not. So. So getting off track, right, I don't even wear the shoes. They're just in boxes, it's just in boxes, all right, so I'm not. So get it off track, right. So I'm one of those people. So I buy stuff that looks good but never wear it.

Speaker 2: 49:03

Yeah, I got stuff in my closet right now with the tags on shoes Still in a box. I ain't been nowhere. I'm at work all the time.

Speaker 1: 49:12

I think we all do it. I'm at work.

Speaker 2: 49:16

It's a hard issue.

Speaker 1: 49:19

But you do get to a point, though, zachary, I hear you, honey, if it could be sold, I bought it. I get it. But I tell you what, though? There is a place in life that you will get to where you start saying is that important, right? So what I'm saying when we say have it all, have what's important. That's all I'm saying. Have what is important, what gives you life, what brings life. So just, you have to start thinking about what is it? Because I just gave away. I just gave away some jewelry. I'm not gonna tell y'all how many pieces of jewelry I had, I'm just gonna tell you it was in large bags. Oh, I mean, I was just buying. I finally came to a place where I said no, the addiction is going to stop here, because it gets to be an addiction.

Speaker 2: 50:27

I mean, you had to admit it somewhere at some point.

Speaker 1: 50:30

At some point Now it's not exceptional anymore, it it'd be different if I was wearing it all, but I mean, I ain't got but two ears. And then think about it is that now I, I go, I go and come. I have so many things that I'm doing. I, I only have the certain pair earrings. I grab and put them on this one, one Butterfly necklace. They're silver earrings. It's the same ones I'm wearing. All the other ones is not, but they're uncomfortable.

Speaker 2: 51:01

It's a comfort level. Now it's like uh-uh.

Speaker 1: 51:04

Look here, listen. That's why I said the Nikes are the one of the three pairs that I wear, because now I don't want my feet to hurt.

Speaker 1: 51:13

Exactly your. You know your priorities change in your life, especially when you start to start to evolve. And then this is. This was a big one for me Now, that is, was that all the money that I was giving other people so they could buy their houses and land and send their kids to private school off of my money that I was spending? That I said, but wait a minute, where are my assets? Okay, where's the stuff that I'm supposed to be having? But all my money was going into retail and stuff like that, because that's temporary satisfaction, instant gratification. I want to look good right now, I want to have stuff right now. But I think that way now because I'm evolved.

Speaker 1: 52:04

I wasn't thinking that way when I was 20. I wasn't thinking that way when I was 25 or whatever. I wasn't thinking that way. So I think, when we talk about the woman that has it all, that depends on where you are in life and it depends on what you call an. All that's what it depends on. Because you know, I'm still single and not because I want to be I would not write this.

Speaker 1: 52:36

So question for you, okay, personal question for you are you ready to mingle? You ready to mingle? Because now wait a minute. I'm ready to answer the question. I just want to be careful. I would say yes, because I think I understand the way that you're saying it, because let me tell you what my point was going to be.

Speaker 1: 53:04

At one point in my life I said I'd like to have a relationship, I'd like to have a relationship, but the truth of the matter was I wasn't available to have a relationship. I'd like to have a relationship, but the truth of the matter was I wasn't available to have a relationship. I was too busy. I was too busy. I was too busy working on my career. I was too busy and there's nothing wrong with working on your career. But what I was saying is that I had nice brothers that would come to me, but they would all say the same thing Sister, you're too busy to have a relationship, and so it. Let me see that maybe my priorities were out of whack because I was too worried about the jingle. That's why I couldn't mingle. So yes, zachary, I am ready to mingle Because I've got my priorities set now. So I'm ready to. I am now ready to mingle. I still want my jingle, but don't get me wrong.

Speaker 2: 54:07

The jingle's still there. It's just you know the jingle.

Speaker 1: 54:11

But I'm ready to mingle a little bit and I know my priorities, you know. But that's why I say we evolve. And so as you evolve and as you grow, it doesn't have anything to do with your age, it's just you as a person and how you set yourself. Then, as you're evolving, you realize you know what. That's really not important, because you learn how to pick your battles. You learn how to. When you start getting older, you learn how to pick your battles. You realize. You know what. It's not worth it. I'm not going to do it. At a certain point, you know, all you want is some peace. It's too expensive.

Speaker 2: 54:52

I ain't got time.

Speaker 1: 54:56

Let's see. I am telling you, I think for me and I know we about to get off topic again, but this is a good conversation I think for me, being a 28 or being close to 30, I think you appreciate more as your peace, as, you get older and don't have time for the like, the foolishness.

Speaker 1: 55:14

So I think for me, where I'm trying to find out. Like I love my peace, yes, like I don't care, I have to go out, I can be by myself. Like me, my spouse can just sit home and don't do nothing. Like I respect more my peace than what's in the street exactly.

Speaker 2: 55:33

I'm a homebody. Listen, I ain't got. I saw this guy one day in the store. He was asking me. He was like do you go out to the clubs? I said no, sir, that that's not my thing. And he was like well, why I don't ever see you nowhere? I said because that ain't where I'm supposed to be. I'm only gonna be in places where I'm supposed to be and in this lifetime for me, my schedule is set up for where I'm supposed to be and what time I'm supposed to be there. So if it's not scheduled for me to be there, then maybe you're not going to find me there because I'm not scheduled to be there. And the places.

Speaker 2: 56:06

I'm scheduled to be is at work on my podcast, or wherever anybody else may need me to be, or at home minding my business. Them the places I'm scheduled to be at.

Speaker 1: 56:19

And it's not the wrong for me, for me not going out, and I said you ain't really missing anything.

Speaker 2: 56:25

at least I don't think so.

Speaker 1: 56:26

My house is my club, my house is my club, I am my DJ, I am my bouncer.

Speaker 2: 56:32

I am my VIP spot. I am my.

Speaker 1: 56:33

VIP spot. I control my own music. I can tell when I can go to bed, like I am all the in the club, exactly.

Speaker 2: 56:40

At the house, at the house, if I want a drink, I'm at my house, at the house.

Speaker 1: 56:47

See, I can't be out there like that, I get sleepy yeah, I get sleepy, sleepy.

Speaker 2: 56:51

So it's like I get my drink up, okay, I can go lay down, go ahead, go to bed, because that's where I'm gonna be anyway.

Speaker 2: 56:58

So ain't no need for me to be out there trying to drink because I'm gonna be sleepy like, no, no, we, we at the house, where you gonna be at the house, at the house, if I ain't at work, I'm at home at the house, and at the house, like I ain't doing all that, like all that yelling, and see one thing for me, like I've never been a club person, for the simple fact of this, and this is this is just my logic. It may not be logical for anybody else, but for me, if we're in the club together and I'm sitting right next to you and I got to yell to talk to you because I can't hear you, yeah, I'm already irritated and I'm ready to go, because why am I yelling if you're sitting right beside me? Like that doesn't make any sense to me. So if I'm sitting beside you and I'm yelling and you're like huh, huh, you know what, let's go, what?

Speaker 1: 57:45

are you saying, yeah, let's go, because I'm not going to be?

Speaker 2: 57:47

yelling at you all night. They're gonna be like the next day well, you had a football game or some sporting event because you can't talk? No, I was at the club and I was talking to my friend sitting next to me and they couldn't hear me. So I'm yelling all night. Yeah, no, I'm not. I'm already irritated.

Speaker 1: 58:03

I'm ready to go but you need, you know, but you, you need, your needs change yeah, just yeah.

Speaker 2: 58:10

your needs change yeah.

Speaker 1: 58:11

It does. Yeah, your needs change as you're evolving. You want a quieter kind of environment. And now there's a challenge because Vida and I are in the house. Like she said, in the house, you know, sometimes ain't nobody going to find us in the house. In the house, yeah, so we do.

Speaker 2: 58:31

You know, sometimes ain't nobody going to find us in the house. In the house, yeah. So, we got to go outside.

Speaker 1: 58:38

We do understand that. And it's different for men. You know, men it's kind of different because y'all can just be out. Y'all can be out at the hardware store, home Depot or something like that and you can meet people. Women is a little different because we're more domesticated and if we're not doing the club scene, so then we're kind of in the house.

Speaker 1: 59:05

I think that what I'm learning? I'm learning that if I get invited to certain kinds of events that I like, instead of always saying no, because it becomes real easy to say no, I'm not going because you get used to being home. So, there again, I'm evolving again and I'm learning how to say yes to more things. How to say yes to more things. And you know, if there are events that I like going to an art show, a gallery or something like that because the brother I like that's probably where he's going to be at anyway, he's not going to be at a club, you know what I mean. So he's going to be somewhere raising money or a charity event. So I'm learning how to say, to be more open and to say yes. And I have friends who say we never ask you because you're never gonna go. So I I'm now. I'm saying okay, yes, you know I'm going to a few more things now. Um, those are the kinds of things that I am open. So I do realize she can't always we got vita.

Speaker 1: 1:00:09

We can't always be in the house, vita can't always be in the house vita.

Speaker 2: 1:00:12

Okay, vita can't always be in the house Vida.

Speaker 1: 1:00:13

We have to get out. We can't always be in the house.

Speaker 2: 1:00:14

Vida, Okay, okay, Vida can't always be in the house. No, I know my kids, my kids, oh my God y'all. My son just told me the other day. He was like Ma, you're about to be 46. It's time for you to live your life outside of us. And I like, okay, I get it. He's like, yeah, but you're about to be 50. No, sir, I'm about to be 47, so don't do that. So he was like it regardless. You're still have to stop because I would use my kids as a no all the time like I am so serious my

Speaker 2: 1:00:47

kids. What people would ask me out and I'll be like, no, I got to do such and such with my kids. Yeah, I have my kids, they need me. I can't like in my kids and this was even after my my older two moved out. They were not in the house. I would say, you know, no, can't do that, can't do that, can't. No, sorry, I got to go here with my son. I got to take him here. I got an here with my son. I gotta take him here. Or I gotta do an appointment with my daughter at the nail place, knowing I'm not even going to get my nails done, I might be dropping her off or something, but that is how bad it was for me. So it's like nope, can't do that, can't do that. So my son was like mom, it's time for you to live your life outside of us. And I'm like okay.

Speaker 2: 1:01:35

So it's, it's about to change for me. You know, um, I will tell you guys this, and not a lot of people know this, but I, I am engaged now. So, yes, and so I'm about to move to North Carolina. But it's one of those things where I'm still nervous about it, because it's like it's taking me out of a comfort zone and it's also taking me out of a space of being self-reliant, independent. And it's like he's like OK, well, there's nothing for you to worry about, I got you. If I say I got you, I got you, and I'm like yeah, I hear that and I've heard that several times before, and it's like it's new and it's different. But at the same time, I am fighting against what I've consistently known, and that is I got me, like nobody else got me, and having someone else who comes in and is like OK, we got us. And so learning to change my vocabulary has been very, very difficult. And he also loves my children, loves my grandkids. They are his kids. Because we were just talking earlier and he was like we got to start planning a vacation for all the kids. And I'm like okay, um, well, we'll get started on that. So it's new and it's different. So I actually have ventured outside a little bit, but I'm still like okay, and it's one of those things that we fell apart to fall back together because I was still learning myself.

Speaker 2: 1:03:14

I've been, you know, divorced and I have been with my kids father since I was 16 years old and we had three kids and we were together for 13 years. And so when we split up, it was like hard for me today, and so, like I said, I wasn't having anybody come over and I had an eight o'clock rule that no men were allowed in my house after 8 pm. And my kids were like okay, my daughter was back home from college and I still had this rule. And they were like ma, we are grown, you can have male company if you would like. And I'm like yeah, no, not doing that, not doing that at all. And they're like but it's fine, you can have male company, yeah, no, not doing that. And so now this gentleman, he has been patient and waiting, waiting for me we split up and we got back together. It was seven years in between that time together. It was seven years in between that time. And so this time he was like yeah, I'm not going anywhere.

Speaker 2: 1:04:17

I was patient and I prayed. And also the prayer that I prayed is when we split up, because my thing is this I always try to make sure that I'm growing my relationship with God, and so the prayer that I prayed was God, if I've already met my husband and I sent him away. Was God, if I've already met my husband and I sent him away, please allow him to return? And he returned and you know he's like I knew then when I met you the first time and I've been consistent on that. So I've been patient and waiting and praying. And you said that if it was meant to be, god would answer that prayer. And I was like, yeah, I did say that, but he was like so I don't understand why you're having such a hard time.

Speaker 2: 1:05:03

And I'm like it's not even that I'm having a hard time, it's the fact that for my majority of my life, I've been solely dependent upon myself and like having my stroke and my brain condition and everything. That's not an easy task for anybody to take on. And so he's been very understanding and very patient and any time I feel like I'm overwhelmed or stressed about something, he's like okay, just go somewhere and sit down, I got it, it's no problem. And I'm like, but you don't understand, like I'm trying to give all of these explanations. He's like, yeah, okay, it's handled, just go sit down. And I'm like, okay, this is new, this is different. And my kids are like that man loves you, go sit down, go do what you're supposed to do, because he's not going to let anything happen to you, you are good, you are safe. And I'm like, yeah, but, and it's like, no matter what my butt is, it's already an answer for that. So I'm learning this new space and I'm grateful.

Speaker 2: 1:06:15

But anytime we have a disagreement, we both go to God first, and that's the blessing that we both have is that if there's a disagreement, he goes to God, I go to God and we go to God together, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:06:30

So we don't make any decisions or anything unless we talk to God first about it, and I truly believe that this time around is where we're supposed to be. You know, and I'm in a space to where I can receive, whereas before I was still hurt from my marriage, the last relationship that I was in, before I actually met him, I couldn't fully understand and receive what he was offering to me because I had a wall up and so learning to love without the conditions or in the wounds of my past has been a challenge, and so when I feel like I'm triggered by something that has been said, I communicate that we have those hard conversations and we don't go to sleep angry with each other. That's just not going to happen. I will get mad, but he's going to make sure that I laugh in the middle of that so that the argument doesn't stay like that and I'm like I want to be mad, I want to be mad, and he's like, yeah, you can still be mad, but it doesn't really matter, you can be mad.

Speaker 1: 1:07:30

I want to be mad.

Speaker 2: 1:07:31

And he's like, yeah, you can still be mad, but it doesn't really matter, you know you can. You can be mad, you can still have your attitude. We're still going to go get something to eat, we're still going to do this because it doesn't change what I want to do with you. So I'm like, okay, you win. So all my defenses are gone. You know, I have nothing to stand on.

Speaker 1: 1:07:57

So Yo, I think that is absolutely wonderful. Beautiful Vida said she got a good man. Like that's it.

Speaker 2: 1:08:04

That's a good man, you got a good man.

Speaker 1: 1:08:05

And Jackie, here on your show is where it was announced the engagement. How wonderful, yeah. So I have one more question for you guys, right? So what time did you ever stand up for yourself and risked getting blacklashed, being silenced, being questioned about your choices in life as women?

Speaker 2: 1:08:40

I say like OK, most of the fields that I've worked in have been the medical field, and when you have questions and your bosses are males, they didn't understand that in order to get more women in, you have to appeal to them in different ways and me telling them that there was like well, no, and I'm like, listen, I'm a woman, you're a man, so there's certain things that you're not going to know to speak on or to say or to engage and to get advice from them.

Speaker 2: 1:09:25

If you want more women in, you have to be willing to hear what we have to say and the way that I do things, I look at things. Number one I'm a black female, I say, and most of your clients are Caucasian, so if you want more of us, then you're going to have to be willing to hear how I talk to them, how we interact together, and once you see that, you'll understand why they're more willing to come, because there's someone that looks like them when they walk in the door and when I answer the phone, they're able to see, okay, well, and so we had a situation where this woman was calling because she heard the advertisement and she was like, yeah, I'm not coming, and I was like well, why not? And she was like well, it doesn't seem like they cater to me like my kind and I was like I understand that.

Speaker 2: 1:10:21

I said okay, well, let me just tell you this. I said if you can't, if you come in and make sure that it's on a day that I'm working and and that if you don't like it from the moment you walk in the door, from each person that you interact with, then you can blame me personally. I said but I don't want you counting us out because you haven't stepped in. I said I'm not trying to sell you anything, but I want you to come and experience what services we do have to offer. And let me just tell you it's a family environment, it's a friendly service, it's a friendly place, but you are free to ask your questions and be comfortable. And if you don't feel comfortable about something and if I don't have the right answers, trust and believe, sweetheart, I'm going to get you the answers that you need, so don't be fretful about that. And so they were like why were you talking to her like that? I said because, number one, she didn't want to come because she looked at the website. Nobody on your website looks like us. So, since nobody on your website looks like us, she doesn't feel comfortable, she doesn't feel like she's going to get the service that she needs, because she's not going to be catered to, because y'all don't always listen to us when we tell you the amount of pain that we're experiencing. So if I can't get her in the door, you're never going to be able to service her anyway. So I have to get her in, so I have to speak to her, to what resonates with her.

Speaker 2: 1:11:49

And so once I got her in, she came in. She was like you was the girl I was talking to on the phone. Yes, ma'am, that is me. How you doing today, girl, what is going on? What can we do for you? What are your main problem issues, problem areas? Tell me what that is, and then I'm going to get you to the right people that can connect you to make you start feeling better. But I need to know this about you. And so she went through her whole process and when she got finished, I said okay, now tell me, are you coming back or what are we doing? She was like girl, I'm coming back Cause you wasn't lying, you got me right where I needed to be.

Speaker 2: 1:12:13

And so when the Caucasian folks would come in, I would treat them the same way, and when I was off, they were like uh-uh, what be that? Where's she at? Because I need to talk to her, because y'all ain't doing me right. And they were like how are you able to get everybody on the same page? I said because I'm talking to them with what makes them feel good. They are individuals to me, but you see them as something else and I don't operate like that.

Speaker 2: 1:12:45

I said so if you're willing to let me do what I do, we gonna be all right. But if you try to change how I do it, you ain't gonna get nobody. So standing up and doing that and letting them see, I can do it the way that you want me to do it, but the results won't be the same. And so when I did it the way that they wanted me to do it, but the results won't be the same. And so when I did it the way that they wanted me to do it, they didn't have nobody. So I'm like all right, I'm going to play your game, but when your game plan don't work, you got to come back and I'm always going to be standing how I sit. So we're going to do it and that's just how it is for me. I don't know. Hey, love it, we gonna do it, and that's just how it is for me, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 1:13:24

Hey, I love it. What about you? Okay? Um, you know, I experience that quite often. I experience that quite often and, um, so, quite often, I experience that quite often, and so one of the things I do is I don't ever try to prove somebody wrong. I don't exert my energy in trying to prove you wrong. I will exert my energy in proving God right.

Speaker 2: 1:14:05

That's why I exert my energy In proving God right.

Speaker 1: 1:14:06

That's why I exert my Energy, because there are some people who are never going to admit they're wrong, even when they're wrong. So that's why I definitely don't try to prove that you're wrong, I just continue to keep.

Speaker 2: 1:14:24

Being who I am.

Speaker 1: 1:14:27

And eventually they're going to see it as a woman who strives to use wisdom, then that would be the key, because you know, as a woman, when you get in a situation like that, zach, you can choose to be the woman who fights. You can choose to be the boisterous woman that fights and to be aggressive, because I'm going to prove my point, I'm going to show them that I'm right. I'm going to show them that my way is better, and this and the other. I can tell you that lots of times. In doing so, you're not going to get very far. You're not going to get very far because this is still a male-dominated world and you have to know that it is.

Speaker 1: 1:15:17

I mean, that's just the way that it is, and so you want to use wisdom, and lots of times you know you have to feed people's ego, so to speak, because I'm a results oriented person and I care more about getting the job done than I care about proving who I am, because I know who I am, I'm confident in who I am, so that made me doing it your way and letting you see that your way will not work.

Speaker 1: 1:15:58

You just come back and say, hey, I think that what you were talking about was good, you see. So that happens more times than not. I think, when you handling women will find themselves in those type of situations quite often just because we're women, because we're black women and they're unfortunately they still in 2025, there are still mindsets that ideologies that women don't know as much as a man knows or a Black woman doesn't know, and I mean they seem like archaic ideas, but people do genuinely feel that way.

Speaker 1: 1:16:46

And so, as a woman, when you navigate through life, you have to first of all discern where the oppression is coming from. You have to be able to discern that, you have to be able to discern where is he coming from. And then, number two, you have to not internalize things. Now, that's a little hard for women, because we're emotional creatures.

Speaker 1: 1:17:10

And sometimes we don't always practice emotional intelligence. Okay, emotional intelligence is what's most important. And so, as a woman that thrives on practicing emotional intelligence and I'm going to say this for the record, I haven't always been that way. I'm from New York. I grew up in the hood and I wrote the book on telling people off. At one time I was that way, you know. It made me feel good to tell you off and to get my point across, but that's because I was immature in that way, as you get older, you learn.

Speaker 1: 1:17:46

As you get older, you learn A soft answer can turn away wrath. I'm more results-oriented because, the truth be told, zachary, I might have told somebody off, and I got them told, but I also didn't get my paper Right. I know that's something that young folks can't understand. I didn't always get my paper, see. Sometimes I lost out on my paper because I was busy running my mouth. So I learned how to be results oriented and look at what is the bigger picture here. Okay, I'm trying to achieve something here, maybe not always for myself, but I'm trying to achieve something else here for other people. And so what is the wisest way to go about doing it? Am I saying not to ever stand up for yourself? No, I'm not. I'm not saying not to ever stand up for yourself. I am a believer in standing up for myself. However, everything is due in timing. Is it the time to do it? Is it the time to say it? Is it the right place to say it? And is it the right person to even say?

Speaker 2: 1:18:55

it to.

Speaker 1: 1:18:57

Yeah, because that might not even be the right person to say it to. Okay, you might be talking to the person that might be the peon, and when God wants you to talk to the big boss, okay. So you know, and when I find myself in situations like that, the first thing I do is try not to internalize it, I try not to look at it as well. It's something against me. No, it's not against me. Even the Bible tells us we don't wrestle against flesh and blood, but spiritual principality. So if anything is coming against me, it's not me that it's coming against. It's because I'm here. I'm on an assignment, I'm here to do something for the glory of God and I've got to keep my mind steadfast on what that thing is and I realized that there are challenges that are coming to get me off of my assignment, so that to what God is trying to achieve now he can't get achieved because I was all up quote in my feelings.

Speaker 2: 1:19:55

Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:19:56

So we got to be able to get up out of our feelings, as I told one of the ladies that I was coaching one time. She was a younger girl and she said, dr Carolyn, you know, I know I messed up, but I was all up in my feelings and I said, well, get out of there because ain't no money in there. She said wow. I said didn't you say you were all up in your feelings? She said, yeah, I was all up in my feelings. I said, well, get on out of there because ain't no money in there. Yeah, don't mess up your money. Okay, that all up in your feelings, that that don't matter. And we have messed up more stuff, we have lost more deals and everything else because we were all up in our feelings. I'm not so we're not saying to abandon how you feel, but use emotional intelligence. Okay, I can't make a decision based solely on how I feel I might need to right now. I might need to hold those cards Okay, you got no when to hold them. You got no when to fold them Okay. When you're in situations like that, don't internalize things. Take a moment, breathe and ask God to give you a strategy and show you how you need to do it and how you need to get through it.

Speaker 1: 1:21:07

Like Trevita just described, that was a because, obviously, the company she was with they were not culturally cognizant, they were not aware of the cultural aspect of the clients that they were serving. Okay, and she was able, in a very wise way, to show them that. Y'all got to become more culturally cognizant. And let me tell you why they understood. And even with what Charita did, let me tell you what they understood, because when we're talking about in the world of business, we can talk about all we feel all day long, and they don't care.

Speaker 1: 1:21:43

This is what they know't know about, though they said to themselves hmm, what this lady here is talking about is going to bring us more clients, translation, going to bring us some more money. That's all they really care about. They don't care about how you feeling and you hurt and you disappointed and you didn't appreciate my gifts. Listen, sweetheart, don't, nobody care. Okay, so you got to be able to get to the point of where you're using rationale, which is sometimes why women get counted out, because we don't always use rationale Like men. Men are rational. They're rational thinkers. They compartmentalize things, you see.

Speaker 1: 1:22:28

That's an example. Like Zach, you've been here on this platform with us for a little over an hour. You've seen me and Trevita. We're able to go in and out of compartments, left and right, right and left. I love it. We're women Women, we do that. I love it. We get on the phone. We're women, women, we do that, I love it. We get on the phone. We call each other. We start off talking about red shoes, then we talk about a red bicycle. We talk about what happened to us when we were five and we just weed. And now men are different. Men compartmentalize. Men say wait a minute, let's get past that. Then we go to that. Then we go to women.

Speaker 1: 1:23:00

We do something else different, you know the thing about it is that you are an excellent host because you allowed us to do our thing as women, and we in and out, and so women, sometimes we need to develop different skill sets, especially in the area of business. We need to develop different skill sets in how we go about doing things, and not always doing things based on emotions. And I will tell you this, and I'll end here when you're a woman that understands how to be business savvy and you operate a certain way, the unfortunate thing is that other women will accuse you of being harsh Exactly, and that is so sad because you'll be on your corporate job for 30 years and you won't never call them harsh, and then, if I say I need you to be on time, I'm harsh.

Speaker 2: 1:23:57

Exactly You're being mean. They already had that conversation.

Speaker 1: 1:24:04

So why is it that, if I, because I lead teams, and so why, if I say, well, I need you to be on time, why am I harsh? But you worked in corporate America for 35 years. They told you to be on time and they weren't harsh and so it's, it's it's. So, you know, we, we get, we get, we get that, we, we, we, we tend to get that. And so I think if we take out the personal part of things sometimes and we can be more focus oriented is what I want to say what is the thing that's going to get the results that will benefit?

Speaker 2: 1:24:43

us all as a whole.

Speaker 1: 1:24:47

OK, then I think we can navigate with each other a bit better when it comes to doing things, because oftentimes, I tell you, within our little culture called women, there's lots of disrespect, unfortunately, and I love us, but I'm just saying there's lots of disrespect because of the reasons that I, you know, that I just said, you know, and so you find yourself, as a woman, really isolating yourself because you don't want to go through the drama and the mishaps and all that you know.

Speaker 1: 1:25:21

So you just say you know what, maybe I'm better off by myself, and that's not really the answer either. However, you know, I think it's to your point we just have to learn how to calm ourselves down. Okay, Calm ourselves down, practice emotional intelligence, ask God to give us a strategy on how to make it through here. Even if your little bitty feelings are hurt and I'm not minimizing that, I'm just saying sometimes our little bitty feelings get hurt Take that to God too and say God, you know I'm hurt. And if you're from the hood like I am, I tell God this is what I really like to do.

Speaker 2: 1:26:01

But I know I can't, I can't do it now.

Speaker 1: 1:26:04

God, I got Jesus in my life, lord. I know God said you help me, help me God so I don't take the people to Brooklyn, tell me the way that I need to handle this, you know, and so you can have a conversation with God like that, and it's quite all right, but this has been.

Speaker 2: 1:26:26

Isn't it great.

Speaker 1: 1:26:27

Listen, listen, this too. Number one I like to ask my people, especially guests who come to my broadcast this is season four. This is all about paneling this season and just to have y'all on here and just learn a lot and give other women a platform to hear y'all. Number one y'all are funny. Y'all are funny individually, but on top of that, y'all are full of information that people like me and people who are not women, who are women of all different types of race, ethnic group, any background they come from, need to hear this. And my last question I'd like to ask anybody who come to my broadcast if it's all you have done, what happened to Miss Carolyn?

Speaker 2: 1:27:21

I don't know. She'll be back, okay.

Speaker 1: 1:27:25

She'll be back. She'll be back, okay. She'll be back, and if she does, I mean, we got it, we got it. So my question is to you, Vida After all, you have done so much, and if it has been your last thing to do, what do you individual want to be known for?

Speaker 2: 1:27:48

Hmm, I want to be known for being very open, honest and transparent about my life the good, the bad, the ugly and the indifferent. I never want to be known for not sharing what I've been through and giving what I know to other people, because sometimes, like Miss Carolyn was saying, my tone sometimes isn't always received from most people, and I'm OK with that. You know, I learned that people are, especially this day and age, they're used to having their feelings coddled, and I'm never been one to coddle feelings at all at all. Because in this life you're going to go through some ups and downs and life isn't fair. We know that and I'm quick to tell a person if you want the fair experience, you're going to have to buy some tickets, because that carnival only comes around once a year. So I want people to know that whatever you're going through about me, I'm going to tell you the truth. I'm not going to be sugarcoating it, trying to censor anything. So anytime you come into my space, I want you to understand that I'm going to pour what I have into you, because whatever I see in myself, I see it in you and I don't want anybody to be shying away and saying, ok, well, I was in her presence and, honey, I didn't like what I was getting from her.

Speaker 2: 1:29:17

She was always telling me no, I'm going to tell you what you need to hear, but if I know that you got a light, that you got over there hiding in the corner behind a couple of things, no, baby, we don't go ahead and pull that out to the front, because your light going to shine because you in the presence of me, and if my light is shining, yours is going to shine even brighter than mine, because that's what I want people who come in contact with me to know that I am God's vessel and whatever he's done for me he can do for you.

Speaker 2: 1:29:42

So that's what I want my legacy to be known for with my kids, their kids, my grandkids and anybody who comes in contact with me.

Speaker 2: 1:29:51

I want them to know that, no matter what, even though life has thrown me a whole bunch of different curve balls, with having a stroke being diagnosed with Chiari malformation, having a brain aneurysm, even losing my speech and my ability to walk All of those things God placed in me to be able to share what he's done for me with other people.

Speaker 2: 1:30:13

So if you're in this space and you're connected to me just know that you about to go to something greater, outside of what even I know. So you going to be doing some things that you never thought you was going to be doing, because I never thought I'd be doing any of this stuff. But I trust God to lead me to the people that are connected to the destiny that he has for me. So while I'm still in this body, giving what God gives me every day, I'm going to give it to someone else, because I don't want to leave here full when I know that God has everything for me to give to someone else. So I'm never going to leave completely full. There's going to be something left from me for someone else to take to carry on.

Speaker 1: 1:31:00

Oh gosh, and just to end it like that and listen, listen. Where can people find you on social media?

Speaker 2: 1:31:06

uh. They can find me on facebook as trevita harris. They can find me on uh, wings of transformation. That's my um publishing business. So if you need anything edited, you need anything proofread, you need help even getting started with writing that book and to become self-published, you can find me there. I have a podcast that is on every second Sunday and fourth Thursday of the month. It's called Believe in the Journey with the Crew Podcast Network, and so, also, you can find me on Facebook at Trevita Harris. You can find me on Instagram as Trevita, underscore Harris 78. My kids say I need to change that, but it is what it is. And you can find me on TikTok and you can find me on YouTube. It's Trevita Harris, and I'll tell you this like I told you, the easiest way to remember how to say my name is Velveeta, like the cheese. So if you can say Velveeta, you can say Trevita. It's cheesy, but you'll never forget it.

Speaker 1: 1:32:07

It's cheesy, Listen. Just to wrap this up, I just want to just thank you and Dr Carol. It's been a serious time talking to y'all.

Speaker 2: 1:32:19

I love it.

Speaker 1: 1:32:20

Especially, I'm going to tell you this lady right here Listen, this is not the first and last time she's going to be on here, because we are going to talk about her engagement, how she met this man, because that is definitely an interesting story. I'm telling you Just thank you for your time. Thank you, I appreciate it. Well, thank you for having me and I'm sorry that we lost Dr Karen. I just want just to give her a hand because y'all funny.

Speaker 2: 1:32:49

This is how we are, and I don't know no other way to be.

Speaker 1: 1:32:57

Thank you. Like I said, my name is Mr Zachary and you are listening to Just the Two of Us broadcast season four of panel. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 1:33:05

I appreciate it.