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Building Bridges in Education and Mental Health

• Zachery Williams • Season 3 • Episode 9

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Ever wondered how resilience, prayer, and community can help overcome anxiety? Today, join my special guest and frat brother Chris as he opens up about his mental health journey. From his upbringing in Ohio to his adventures teaching English in South Korea, and his current role as a climate coach in Baltimore, Chris's story is one of adaptation and growth. He candidly shares his struggles with anxiety and the steps he's taken towards recovery, emphasizing the significant role of support systems in his life.

In our conversation, we also dive into the multifaceted challenges teachers face today. Chris highlights the broader responsibilities educators take on, extending well beyond the classroom. We discuss the financial and societal hurdles they encounter and explore alternative career paths that are becoming increasingly attractive. From policy-making to curriculum development, the scope of educational roles is vast, and Chris offers heartfelt insights on keeping students engaged, especially in communities with broken households.

Finally, we explore the importance of generational wisdom and building supportive communities. Chris reflects on the limitations imposed by certain systems on Black and Brown students and the impact of adult responsibilities on children's development. The episode wraps up with discussions on creating love, developing personal peace, and the power of prayer. With a warm shoutout to our fraternity, this episode is a heartfelt tribute to resilience, community, and the journey toward a brighter future.

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Speaker 1:

Hey you guys. It is your boy, mr Zachary, on his ones and two, and welcome to Just the Two of Us broadcast. I'm glad that you are here today chilling, get your wine, get your drink, get your snap, because you are tuning into Just the Two of Us broadcast. I have a special friend of mine. He is my frat brother. He's a one of a kind, chris, how are you doing today?

Speaker 2:

What's up, zach Attack? I am well. I'm excited to be with you on your podcast tonight. Let's shoot the breeze, let's talk, let's chat.

Speaker 1:

Oh, so he's ready to get into the tea. So firstly, I'd like to ask all my guests who comes on here how is your mental stage?

Speaker 2:

Wow, I mean, okay, I thought we was going to talk. You came in straight ready to be my therapist. I see how it is. I see how it is.

Speaker 2:

Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. Man, I will be very transparent. Right, I am on the other side of a really tough space. I wholeheartedly believe that when you are being expanded, when you are being prepared for a different season, it is like a rebirth, almost it's like being a butterfly coming out of your cocoon. So there is a level of pressure that is present but also required if that makes sense. So I was going through, I mean, I was listen. I just want to go to sleep, I just want to be isolated. I don't want to talk to nobody, I don't want nobody to come over Like I don't want to do nothing with nobody, I just want to be at the house.

Speaker 1:

But thankfully, I have acknowledged the level of anxiety that I have.

Speaker 2:

I'm no longer on medication. I used to be, so I was able to acknowledge and pinpoint. Oh, I know exactly what this is.

Speaker 2:

And so I really tapped into my circle, I tapped into prayer. I tapped into prayer, I tapped into church, really staying connected to the word, staying connected to God in this season, because it could have gone a whole different way. You know what I mean Understandable. You said what Understandable. Absolutely. Those of us who live with I don't want to say struggle with I don't want to say anything else those of us who live with anxiety or those who navigate living with anxiety, know how an episode can go right. You can get into a really, really dark place. I did not allow myself to do that. So, with all that being said, I'm on the other side of it. I'm smiling more. I am happy, I'm excited about what's going on in my life, what is going to be going on or what's going to be happening moving forward. I'm excited and I'm a happy anxious, if that makes sense, like man, I can't wait to see what's really happening out here, so everybody behind the scenes.

Speaker 1:

Like he got a good smile Like listen, just to give y'all a good image after his voice. Like he got a great smile, to be honest with y'all.

Speaker 2:

I appreciate that.

Speaker 1:

You're welcome, so let's give our listeners a backstory of who you are. What are you? Who are you? What makes you you?

Speaker 2:

Man, I feel like I'm very multifaceted so I don't really know where to start, so I'll start here. Shout out to Ohio, the big O-H-I-O.

Speaker 2:

That was where I was born and raised Okay, ohio, born in the building um went to college there xavier university in cincinnati got my bachelor's degree in public relations. Um, immediately following that, I was fortunate enough to move to south korea and teach english as a second language for two years. I know, I did, I, I did. I taught English in South Korea for almost two years. Fun fact, that's actually where I crossed into our wondrous band. Shout out to the bros of Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity Incorporated. Alpha Omega Sigma Chapter in Seoul, south Korea. I actually just celebrated my 11th Sigmaversary on Sunday. You know Blue.

Speaker 1:

Pie. You know, you already know.

Speaker 2:

You already know, once I came back, I moved to Denver, where I got my master's degree in urban curriculum and instruction from the University of Denver and started teaching full-time. But then, like I almost immediately knew that being in the classroom was a good thing, but entering education as a career choice was my great thing, meaning I knew that I was not going to be in the classroom for the next 25 years.

Speaker 2:

You know our parents, our grandparents those folks older than us got into these positions, got into these career choices, and they did it for 20, 30 years and then they retired. Right, I was like I knew I was not going to be in the classroom for 25 years Would I have wanted to Absolutely, but that's just not the goal that I had. So I ended up leaving the classroom and becoming a behavioral specialist and absolutely loved it. Then Washington DC called. And when the nation's capital calls, the answer.

Speaker 2:

So, in the middle of COVID. I picked up all of my life in Denver after five years and moved to Washington DC, lived there for about three years serving as a dean and then going back into the classroom as a special education teacher and then as a math teacher again, and am currently in Baltimore City as what's called a climate coach. So within that role, I support schools with all things culture and climate, answering questions like how are we decreasing suspensions? How are we increasing attendance? How are we streamlining office referrals so that those students are actually receiving supports and not just getting a tick on their report? If that makes sense, we look at immunizations, particularly around those who are immigrating or coming into our country or into the city.

Speaker 2:

Like moving to a new city is already tough and you don't speak the language. You're the only family that you have here. You don't feel like you can really trust anybody. If that makes sense, it does. Making sure that we are offering supports to not only support the family but acknowledge the fact that listen, we got you. We're going to make sure that you are successful. I'm also in my third year of a PhD program.

Speaker 1:

I am studying educational psychology.

Speaker 2:

Currently Listen Dr Razor on PhD program. I am studying educational psychology. Currently Listen Dr Razor on the way.

Speaker 1:

I can tell you that I'm just at the peak of it. I'm at the beginning of my doctor's career.

Speaker 2:

I'm at the beginning.

Speaker 1:

I have to run.

Speaker 2:

It's a journey. It's a journey, and it's one that's truly going to show you who you are. Right, this is what you're capable of, and if you're going to do it, you're going to do it. You're going to do it, and I can kind of say do the fire, whatever the words are. I definitely feel like that is exactly what going through a doctoral program is like, because Jesus prayed for us. Pray for us. Y'all heard that we both in a program.

Speaker 1:

Pray for us, listen not for the faint of heart, not for the faint of heart, not for the faint of heart.

Speaker 2:

So I'm doing that and I just authored my first book to teach or not to teach. Volume 3 is officially out. We have a conference on Saturday actually, depending on when this is going to air, the 20. Whatever this is going to air, whatever this Saturday is, I should probably know the date of the conference that I'm going to be on, but I'm going to be there and if y'all are interested, y'all will be there too. So, yeah, all of that to say. Who am I? I am a man of Sigma. I am a lifelong learner. I am a compassionate educator who is doing the work to ensure that generations of black and brown students have the resources that they need to be successful. I'm a Christian, I believe in the Lord. Me and the big G-O-D are homies and I am happily imperfect. I'll end it like that I am happily imperfect.

Speaker 1:

And that is a good thing to end on. So one of the things so you have a lot of educational background.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:

And one of the now. You see, now, these days, teachers are leaving the classrooms.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:

Are quitting their jobs because parents doesn't care, other kids not going to school or they're not caring. Why is that happening in your point of view?

Speaker 2:

Man, that's a good question. I'll say get our book to teach you not to teach, because that book discusses the decision of staying in the classroom or not. From my perspective, teachers are leaving the classroom for a couple of different reasons. One, education is tough, right, and if you're going to become a teacher, you have to really like be a teacher. You know what I mean. You can't just do it because, oh, I wanted to have summers off, or I like the kids or no. You have to have a heart for children and families and if you don't, education is going to eat you up and spit you out, because these kids these days are born and raised on technology and so needing and having and being required to ensure that they understand why education is important.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we know you can go and Google something. Yeah, we know you can use chat, gpt, but what are you going to do when you are on the side of the road and you have a question? What do you want to do when somebody is asking you to give correct change? What are you going to do when you have to sign your name on a contract and you need to read through all of the bylaws or whatever it is? What are you going to do when you are trying to bake a cake and you don't understand the difference between cornstarch and baking soda Like go?

Speaker 1:

to school, go to school, go to school, go to school.

Speaker 2:

I will also say that teachers are leaving because teachers are not paid. Pay teachers. Teachers are not being paid and in this day and age, when you can be a full-time blogger or you can work independently as a tutor or as an education specialist and charge whatever you want to charge when you're good at your job, don't be out here charging $1,000 an hour. When you can't get a job, there's no reason to stay in the classroom, right? And there is also the fact that teachers are not respected. Teachers are not respected for the work that we actually do with 30 kids for upwards of six hours a day, making sure that they are leaving prepared for society.

Speaker 2:

And that is not just academics, but that is social, emotional learning, that is public speaking, that is being a mother, that is being a father, that's being a coach, a disciplinarian that's doing hair, that's feeding these babies. It is all of this stuff wrapped up into being a quote-unquote teacher that folks still don't acknowledge, and that's tough right. That's like saying, oh, a doctor only signs prescriptions what, yeah? That's like saying a scientist only produces bombs or something, what Like there's.

Speaker 2:

So it's like accounting just doing math, it's like Exactly it's the whole level of Exactly, exactly, listen and let's pull it all the way down. Let's start saying a waiter only brings you your food. What we are out here fighting every day, exactly, life is life and eggs cost $12. Bacon costs $25. Didn't wait for that conversation yet. Didn't wait for that conversation and you not acknowledging the fact that I'm out here doing real life work. Get out of here. Get out of here, not when I can work virtually from Miami or Galveston, texas or anywhere in the world and do what I need to do, not happening. I also believe, and really at this, going back to the book, folks don't realize that there is more to education than just being a classroom teacher. There's policy, there's policy. There is publication of curricula, there is attendance, like I said, suspension. There are supports that are needed in order for education to continue to thrive and succeed in this ever-changing society. So it's a lot. It's a lot.

Speaker 1:

So why do you think this book is very important for educators to have every single day to have with them if they are struggling or they are questioning certain things or they are looking for answers. So why this book is very important to educators to have?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. That's a great question. This book is important because it is the shared stories and lived experiences of individuals who chose to either stay in the classroom or find alternative spaces. For example, again, I'm a climate coach. I could be doing everything that I'm doing inside the classroom and I was right. Like I'm a brag about myself, I was an amazing teacher.

Speaker 2:

I have students who hit me up even today that I had seven years ago in Colorado talking about you were one of my best teachers, and it's because I showed compassion, it's because I did more than just teach math, science and social studies, and I knew that in order to make a real impact, I had to not just hit 20, 25 kids a year. I had to hit literally hundreds and almost thousands of kids. I had to make sure I had a seat at the table where those decisions were being made. So the book is an opportunity to not only hear those shared stories but also reflect on what's your story going to be, what has your story been and how can you pivot or make a shift so that what your dream or your desire is is actually what you're living. It's a great book. It's a great book, I'm excited. I'm excited to read it, and I co-authored it.

Speaker 1:

So as writing your book, as writing the book. What was some struggles that you have during the book process?

Speaker 2:

the amount of words like hey y'all, you can only have 3 000 words. What clearly?

Speaker 1:

I can talk about all the things.

Speaker 2:

Clearly, I have so many experiences that I want to share um, to give a clear picture of why I am where I am and why I've made the choices that I've made. And having to limit that to just a couple of words is like wow, okay, what? How can I be as most impactful in this space? I will also say, really reflecting on myself, I can brag, I can talk, I can talk myself up, but really sitting and reflecting and saying wow, I did this, that and that and that and that, saying wow, I did this, that and that and that and that and that was a good thing. I left this school and it was a good choice. I left the classroom and I'm still impacting those students who are in that classroom.

Speaker 2:

It's hard to make a good decision sometimes because you don't want to hurt anybody, you don't want to leave anybody behind. You don't want to hurt anybody, you don't want to leave anybody behind. You don't want to leave somebody high and dry, right, Like this. Principal now needs to find another teacher. Well, guess what? That's why there's a principal. They were made because they got that position, because they were able to make those kinds of decisions. Let them do their job. You're going to do your job.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So why do I can say this? Why is it so important that students remain in the classroom than in the streets? Because you know, as teachers, they are parents in the classroom as well outside the classroom. Because you know, as teachers.

Speaker 1:

They are parents in the classroom as well outside the classroom, because you know, as you look at African-Americans, some households are broken, some households got one parent, some died, some leave their child behind, leave this child behind. So why is it so important that students slash kids any age, stay in the classroom rather than running to the streets.

Speaker 2:

I'm going to sound real old when I say this, but shout out to our grandparents and ancestors, because they were on to something the streets don't have anything good for you.

Speaker 1:

Can you say that again from the back? They didn't hurt you.

Speaker 2:

They don't. The classroom is a safe space. The classroom is an opportunity for you to make a mistake and grow. The classroom is a space where you can learn to identify yourself. Your classroom is a space where you will make lifelong friends. A classroom is a space where you will make lifelong friends. A classroom is a space where you can be a kid and even if you listen, being in the doctoral program, I'm still able to be a kid. I am still able to laugh. I am still able to have fun. I'm still able to draw pictures. Yes, I'm writing 30 pages, but I am in a space where my professor knows me, knows my strengths and my weaknesses, and is working alongside me to pull out the best in me. The streets ain't nothing. The streets is hot. The streets is dirty. The streets stink. Ain't nothing in the streets ain't nothing. The streets is hot, the streets is dirty. The streets stink. Ain't nothing in the streets. Go to school, go to class, go to a classroom. Get you a Nutri-Grain bar.

Speaker 1:

Watch some Bill Nye, the Science Guy. I'm not going to get in there. I'm not going to get in there. I'm sorry, but no, sit down somewhere.

Speaker 2:

it's very important for students to get the education.

Speaker 1:

Without education you wouldn't go anywhere, absolutely like now. These days, you need education. I don't care if you learn the basics, because the basic will get you so far. Then the person who doesn't know anything Absolutely, even though we have these technologies in our hands, that's not going to teach you communications. It's not going to teach you publications. It's not going to teach you how can you connect with human beings outside, and this is a high scene.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely Again. Education is more than just teaching writing, reading and arithmetic. We are out here teaching babies how to navigate anxiety, how to navigate and advocate for themselves when they need something. Guess what we know you upset because this, this and that is going on at home. This is the space to learn how to process it so that when you are outside, in these streets, you're not making a bad decision that's going to lead to an even worse consequence.

Speaker 1:

And I think sometimes they don't understand that until it actually hit them. And I think sometimes they don't understand that until it actually hit them, and I think that's why I'm scared for this generation now, because it's all about technology, like they don't have no social skills, but we did that to them.

Speaker 2:

We did that to them. These babies have had Cocomelon and iPads in their face since they were born.

Speaker 1:

Then it goes back to being a parent. It's going back to hey trying to put the phone away, trying to put the iPod away, trying to go outside, trying to do certain things Like be a family. There's not for me, growing up, going outside was the best thing, mm-hmm. It teach you how to navigate to life, mm-hmm. It teach you how to survive in the wilderness, mm-hmm. It teach you how you can manage being by yourself, mm-hmm, and not how other people play you. It teach you so much, then.

Speaker 2:

So I used to talk bad about parents. I used to say parents are trash. I used to say parents need to, and I still believe, in a certain extent, some folks need to apply to be a parent, because what is it that you out here doing? However, there is no rule book, there is no script on how to parent, just like there is no script on how to adult, right. There are some moments where I actually sit and I be like wait, I'm like a full-blown adult out here, like I'm not even just in my 20s right now, like I'm not here, full-blown adulting. I'm still waiting on folks to give me like birthday cards with dollars and stuff in it, and it's not happening.

Speaker 1:

It's not happening.

Speaker 2:

And I say all that to say I wish there were spaces and I guess this is going back to what the classroom could be or what schools could be or what education could be. I wish there were spaces where parents could ask questions. You know what I mean, but I mean the church could be this, your community organizations could be this. Where's the YMCA? Where's the Boys and Girls Clubs? Where are these places that I feel we had when we were growing up, where folks could go and ask questions like hey, I'm struggling with this, my kid and I are struggling communicating around this. How can we communicate? We don't like to depend on each other anymore. Everything I feel is so isolated and in silos. And let me do for me, because ain't nobody there for me before, and I'm going to do me all day. I'm going to stand 10 toes down. I'm going to be about, I'm going to stand on business. No, friend, stand on community, stand on community.

Speaker 1:

But you have to. So I look at it both sides because I have to play. For me personally, I have to look at both sides, okay? So when you say, go back to community, sometimes your community can play with you, can stab you in the back. They can do you so different wrongs in so many different areas, even depending on family. Sometimes your family can do you so dirty, and even with kids. Sometimes kids have to grow up too fast.

Speaker 1:

Kids don't know how to be kids. Kids don't know how to control their emotions. Kids don't know how to be kids. Kids don't know how to control their emotions. Kids don't know how to treat other people. And as you look at this generation and I'm a part of but in between millennial and this generation, you look like, damn, this generation's fucked up. But what I love about this generation is they are able to speak their mind Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So that's what I love about this generation. They don't take no for an answer. They know what they want out of life. And then you look back at the other generation. They are selling. Some of them sell for less. They don't know who they are.

Speaker 1:

They don't know how to have fun. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So that's how you got to look at it both ways, and go ahead.

Speaker 2:

I hear you, I absolutely hear you. I will still answer it by saying a kid isn't going to learn how to be a kid. Right, there are some innate traits and behaviors that we are going to show. However, there are still very much important teaching opportunities that we need to grab and hold on to. A kid ain't just going to know how to play tag. Now, yeah, we can just run around and punch each other and push each other, but when you put some structure behind that fun, when you add in the fact that everybody needs to have a voice, you know what I mean. That's how we got free tag. Because, listen, I'm not just going to keep running, I need to pause real quick. I'm being Tag with Right back to. Because, listen, I'm not just going to keep running.

Speaker 1:

I need to pause real quick.

Speaker 2:

I'm being. You know what I mean. Like, I feel like, and I totally agree that this generation, this younger generation, is one to inquire about why things are, and I think that's the beauty of how they're going to change the world. They are going to shift so much because they are realizing now this don't make no sense, this operation ain't working. Y'all was dumb. Y'all been doing this for how long, what?

Speaker 2:

But there is still a need for the wisdom that our generation and the generations before us have. This is why it was this way. Yes, it might not work for us now, but this is the best that we could do. You know what I mean. Like, we wonder why our parents and our grandparents did some stuff, and our generation was like, yeah, we are just going to go this way. And our generation was like, yeah, we are just going to go this way. But what we did not do is ask why? What was happening here?

Speaker 2:

Now I will say that the generations before us are often not as open and transparent around their decisions. However, if we don't start asking these questions, we are going to lose out on so much wisdom. We are going to lose out on so many lived experiences that the systems and policies and things that are in place are never going to make sense and we're going to be at a detriment because of it. Like, come on y'all, every generation has something positive. Everybody is not trash, everybody's not trash. Now, and I want to hit on you said you know sometimes your families and your communities can do you dirty Absolutely. But we still stay in these toxic relationships. We still go to Big Mama's house knowing that she gonna talk about us bad, but she gonna call us big, bad, bad built bitch body but she gonna feed your ass, though Exactly she gonna feed you.

Speaker 2:

Exactly. She gonna feed you Exactly. She gonna call you fat while making you a plate. There is a. There are boundaries that are definitely needed, but there is still more community needed than anything.

Speaker 2:

Find you a community, and I think that's what our generation and the generation coming up after us decided. Guess what? I can make my own family. I don't have to mess with you. I can make my own community and be fine. And all I'm saying is find somebody. If you are going through life trying to do it by yourself, you're not going to get far. What does the quote say? Oh, I can't think of it verbatim, or even who said it, but like, if you want to go quick, go by yourself. If you want to go far, go with others. Look it up. Somebody said it, that's y'all's homework. Look up who says Somebody said it, that's y'all's homework. Look up who says something like that. And then come to the conference on Saturday and let me know who said it Get the book. There you go, there you go, get the book.

Speaker 1:

There you go. So in the peak of a book I said peak of the book In the book do you think the system especially? Do you think the system especially African-American it's? How can I say this?

Speaker 2:

Do you think the system want the kids nowadays to fail? No, why is it not? I do not believe that the system wants kids to fail. I will. I will counter that and say I believe there are certain systems who want kids to fit into certain boxes and certain spaces.

Speaker 2:

There are certain systems that only want students to become blue-collar workers. There are certain systems that only want students to see their community instead of the entire world. There are certain systems that are not conducive to the lived experiences of Black and Brown students and which turns itself into a detrimental opportunity for students to learn and grow and expand past their own community. If you are only talking to these kids in Baltimore about Baltimore.

Speaker 2:

They're only going to be concerned about Baltimore. But if you talk to these kids who have not gone past, I'll say MLK, because there's always an MLK in the hood in any city. Trash On this Juneteenth, put MLK in the white folks' neighborhood.

Speaker 1:

Those who get it get it Just gonna let it those who get it get it. Just gonna let it those who get it get it.

Speaker 2:

Listen. But if you are exposing these babies, okay, I'm in Baltimore. If I expose these babies in Baltimore to the mountains of Colorado, they'll want to go to Colorado. If I expose these babies in Baltimore to the Korean fried chicken that I used to get in Daegu, they're going to want to go to Daegu and get that Korean fried chicken. If I only talk to them about these chicken boxes on Greenmount, if you're from Baltimore, you know what Greenmount is then they're only going to want to go to Greenmount.

Speaker 2:

Right, if I only talk to, if I only consider the lived experiences of Baltimore, without exposing them to the lived experiences of Montana and California and Texas, I am doing these babies a disservice. And so I do not believe the system wants kids to fail. I believe the system wants kids to be in certain spaces, but two does not take into consideration where these kids could be their potential, and that's what my dissertation and my argument is around the social-emotional practices. Social-emotional learning has become this big buzzword in education. Everything is about social-emotional learning. How are we making sure the kids feel safe and valued and seen and heard? Yeah, that's all well and good, but if I am keeping it on a broad perspective instead of actually considering what these babies are actually going through on the daily basis and how different and unique it is, then I'm still not going to truly hit on their social, emotional learning.

Speaker 1:

That part, because they didn't hit you in the back, but that part right there.

Speaker 2:

The lived experiences is important If a kid, like you said, is in the sixth grade but is operating like they're in the 12th grade because they have to be the parent in their household and get themselves up and get their kids and their kids get their siblings up and get them all to school and make sure they have food, if any, and then get to school and learn but know that after school they have to get their siblings home and do homework and cook and clean and do all this stuff. No, they're not going to be a kid.

Speaker 1:

They're not operating like a kid, they're operating like they need a 401k. Retirement. And just to add on that it's going to hurt them in the wrong way as adults Absolutely is Mentally, physically and spiritually, because they never know how to be a kid at that age.

Speaker 2:

So they're going to be a kid at the age of 35. That's why you got grown folks out here. Never mind, I won't go there, I ain't going to go there. I ain't going to go there. Never mind, I won't go there, I ain't gonna go there.

Speaker 1:

I ain't gonna go there, but that's why you have people out here making unrational decisions.

Speaker 2:

Childish decisions. You out here making Nick Jr decisions when you should be watching C-SPAN friend. You making happy meal decisions when you should be getting a whole meal. They'll be watching pbs not just because of viewers like you. Leave it alone. Grow up up.

Speaker 1:

Stand up, stand up business, stand up business, stand up business. But I just want people to buy this book and learn from it Absolutely, and take what you need to take out this book and sometimes, when you read, it might not be for you.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm, but it's for somebody Exactly. It's for somebody.

Speaker 1:

So please buy the book and if you have any more questions, you know, type in my little fan, my fan inbox.

Speaker 2:

I would just say find me on Instagram, c Allen Razor, r-a-z-o-r. You'll learn more about myself, my own journey, as well as the link to find the book. But other than that, live in your truth, live unapologetically, but be kind to each other, because life be life and we are all out here struggling. You never know what somebody else is going through. So it pays nothing or it costs nothing to be kind. It costs nothing to be kind.

Speaker 1:

So my last question is for you. I like to ask all my guest hosts who comes on here After everything has been done, after you leave your footprints in the sand, what advice would you want to leave? What would you want to be a member of? Would you want to be a member of If everything that you have done and you have been gone? What legacy you want to leave? It don't have to be a legacy, it can just be something that remember you. People want to remember you of.

Speaker 2:

My immediate response, and this is I'm going to just say it Love is not found, it's created, mmm. Peace is not given, it's developed, and prayer still works.

Speaker 1:

So curate love, develop your own own peace, whatever that looks like, and, above all things, pray there we go, and any advice that you have for me and for your viewers, or any last words, no, this has been great, zach, like you already listen if you know you know you already listen if you know you know you already know how I feel about too.

Speaker 2:

So, no, this is great. I appreciate the opportunity. I'm excited to see where this takes us both. It's only up from here, friend. It's only up from here. Shout out to the frat.

Speaker 1:

There we go. You are listening to just the two of us. Your host, mr Zacharyary Williams, or call me Zach Attack, and this is us tuning the fuck out of here, see you later don't not go nowhere.